So I'm confused. As usual.

"Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief" (flynorcal)
07/18/2018 at 19:06 • Filed to: None

This thing:

I was feeling pretty good getting this thing humming like a sewing machine as it’s old as hell and gas and in a marine environment and did I mention old? 30hp Palmer gas engine from ~1970. Now it starts and runs and makes great power but once it’s hot it wants to shut down. Left idling it will turn itself off via a gradual loss in RPM or when hot and at higher RPM it’ll drop then cut out. Sometimes it’ll rise before it dies. It’s not 100% consistent which isn’t helping.

I don’t have a temp gauge but it doesn’t feel hot... But it has the feel of an overheating engine, the way it shuts down. It stumbles a bit if that makes sense.

I’ve opened the gas cap and it’s not vapor lock.

There’s a ton of cooling water going thru the engine and out the rear of the boat.

Oil is full. Bit dark but plenty of it.

The gas in the tank is 1.5 years old. Water sinks so it’s not that as it wouldn’t run at all . I get a little puff of white smoke on startup but I’ve got a little bit of Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel so that’s the likely cause. It goes away immediately after start.

Any ideas on where to troubleshoot this? Like, any? I'm at a loss.

DISCUSSION (20)

LOREM IPSUM > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/18/2018 at 19:58

This might help, maybe:

http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=289/category_id=13/mode=prod/prd289.htm

PyramidHat > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/18/2018 at 20:11

More importantly, what type of boat you got that in? 30HP would be a good kicker for a sailboat...

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > PyramidHat
07/18/2018 at 20:16

It’s a 30' Islander Bahama. It’s my second one of this make and model. The last one was a bit newer 1984 with a diesel that I sailed from Alameda CA to Oahu three years ago. They're great little boats.

PyramidHat > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/18/2018 at 20:24

Always liked those! A while back (OK, a long time ago) I had dreams of living aboard (Redwood City, Coyote Point, San Mateo) and would look at all boats in that range. The Islander was beamier than the Cat 30, which made it more livable to me....

Did you sail the WestPac? or just haul off on your own? One day when I’m not pissing my money away on airplanes or domestic life, I might get me a big boat (as opposed to the Hobie Getaway I currently own)

Berang > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/18/2018 at 20:41

Does it have points and capacitor? Capacitor may be on the way out, when they start to go they usually start by missing and cutting out once the engine warms up. Motor will start fine from cold, but won’t run once it gets hot.

MM54 > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/18/2018 at 20:42

I’d try fresh gas and consider the ignition coil, might be getting hot and intermittently shorting out. Also, just because you took the cap off the gas tank doesn’t mean it couldn’t vaporlock.

After it dies, what does it take to start it back up?

Quadradeuce > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/18/2018 at 21:16

Still sounds like vapor lock. Also, you would be amazed what fresh gas does to finicky engines.

Die-Trying > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/18/2018 at 23:15

how is it to start immediately after it dies? does it just crank and crank, or will it light right off?..... and after it has died and you let it set for a while, does it light right off, or does it spin for a little bit before it fire , like it is having to fill up the carb?

when you describe it as rpm rising right before it dies, it sounds as if it is running out of fuel..... so i would check the fuel filters, and check the fuel lines to see if there might be a hose or line, maybe a filter on its way out, trash in the fuel line .........

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > MM54
07/18/2018 at 23:16

Bump of throttle and it comes back. I can't idle back down without it dying tho.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/19/2018 at 00:17

Air, fuel, spark. It has to be one of those. As others have guessed, it might be ignition related. Not knowing anything about it, does it have a carburetor?

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/19/2018 at 01:07

As someone already mentioned, get rid of old gas and put in fresh gas.

Or top it up with fresh gas, give it an old fashioned Italian Tuneup until the current tank of gas is mostly gone, fill with fresh gas, run it hard again until that fresh tank of gas is gone, fill up again, and then see how it runs.

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > PyramidHat
07/19/2018 at 14:04

I built a company which was bought by another company (who likely made the phone in your pocket) and it takes the lawyers a while to get all of that sorted out. I bought a satellite phone and took off figuring I’d be reachable. The phone never worked.

Were I to do it over I’d have adjusted my timing a little bit but those who don’t pick a day and go never seem to actually go.

Since it sounds like you’re local if you want to go sailing sometime give me a holler. Oppo at noops dot org is my email address. I’m an ASA certified instructor and also an instrument rated aerobatic pilot as well so I suspect we’d have plenty to talk about.

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/19/2018 at 14:07

Yes. It's basically a small tractor motor.

MM54 > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/19/2018 at 17:32

So it doesn’t idle hot, not so much dies once warm?

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > MM54
07/24/2018 at 13:48

Yes, I suppose that’s fair. It idles until it gets wa rm, then it dies, and I can easily get it started again by making it idle higher than where it should be.

MM54 > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/24/2018 at 17:24

Checked for vacuum leaks?

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > MM54
07/25/2018 at 02:54

I’ve not. Think I should? I’m genuinely curious as to why but I’m not saying that in a doubting way — I genuinely don’t see the connection unless you think the heat makes it worse somehow. I know a vacuum leak will make an engine run a little poorly but my only real world experience was replacing a valve to cure poor idling but it was at all temperatures.

I had an OBD tool that suggested it. I’m not quite sure how to test this thing for vacuum leaks. Fire it up and blow some smoke at it?

It’s a very confined space and the fuel pump is electric and between it’s whine and the engine itself and the cooling water running through everything it’s impossible to hear anything subtle. I think it’s the coil pack which is apparently available at any AutoZone but nobody knows the part number and there’s a ton of close but not right items discussed in the forms. It’s like everybody is being that guy that has a question and then thanks everyone when they finally figure it out but never actually post the solution. So making that swap is far more involved than it needs to be because everyone agrees it is after eventually finding the right part and never posting the number. *Shakes fist*

MM54 > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/25/2018 at 18:08

Oh man, that’s the worst (forum thread with the same problem, ending in “thanks got it working”). I try to always follow up on mine for that reason.

It’s possible that as it warms up and the choke is off all the way a vacuum leak would be leaning it out. Once it’s full hot it then slowly would die out. It’s not extremely likely, but possible. To check, spray some carb cleaner around suspect areas while it’s running. If the engine speed reacts, you’ve found a leak pulling in air (and carb cleaner). Coil is more likely - best of luck with it. Your best bet may be taking the old one in and going through their selection.

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > MM54
07/26/2018 at 18:39

That would explain another thing. The RPM increases as the engine warms. I chalked it up to old age. However if it’s running leaner and hotter there we go. Also explains the pretty sudden and strong increase before it dies plus the ability to restart it and also the ability to keep it running with throttle. I’m able to overpower the leak with fuel.

Looks like I know what I’ll be doing soon. Easier to start with this than the coil.

Thank you so much and if we ever cross paths in real life beers are on me! This is some very good oppo!

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
07/28/2018 at 21:07

I went to test for vacuum leaks. It started and died before I got to check. Would not restart. I took the coil off and replaced it.

Part number: Accel 8140C

Fired right up. Immediately b roke the alternator belt. Progress but .

Anyway should anyone down the road struggle with a Palmer P-60 Marine engine and find this thread you’ve got your answer.

Oil filter: Fram C235 or Napa 1153

Fuel filter: Sierra 18-7845

Paying it forward.